Vin plate & stamped number on frame not matching

This section is for anyone new to the Moto Guzzi marque, who wants to know which Guzzi would be best for their needs and for anyone in the club to ask their what bike questions.
Post Reply
silo
MGCGB Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:41 pm

Vin plate & stamped number on frame not matching

Post by silo » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:19 am

Can anybody help me on a somewhat worrying subject.

I have bought a guzzi café racer from a supposedly reputable dealer. and having had quite a few problems with it along with other issues now means I want to sell it.

The tonti frame has a moto guzzi vin plate, and a number also stamped on the frame. The issue is the V5c states the frame number to be KD1***1, which is virtually illegible on the guzzi vin plate. The number stamped on the frame states VV1***7.
The bike is on an "M" plate and states 1995 on the V5c.
The only KD prefix I have found seem to be for dutch registered Cali 1100, but this is 1997 /1998, and the VV might reference a Le mans 5??

Can anybody help unpickle this? Should both sets of numbers always match?

User avatar
Chris950s
MGCGB Member
Posts: 3271
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:20 pm
Location: Essex
Contact:

Re: Vin plate & stamped number on frame not matching

Post by Chris950s » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:54 am

If it is a cafe racer the donor parts could have come from anywhere, and of any age. The bike may have started as the frame or the engine but it sounds like not both from the same bike. This is not unusual. VIN plates can be bought from India and you can stamp what you like on them. Engine and frame numbers rarely match as they factory didn't work like that in the Tonti frame era. It is possible that it was a 1995 bike, that then had an engine and/or frame swap possibly due to an accident or just what the builder had to hand. It is also possible that the bike was 1997 but had an earlier registration plate put on it as in cherished numbers?

The main things are does it run well and do you enjoy it?
Chris and Karen - Essex
2011 Stelvio NTX, 1974 950S (750S replica still in bits), 1966 Triumph T100SS 50 years young last year!

silo
MGCGB Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:41 pm

Re: Vin plate & stamped number on frame not matching

Post by silo » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:05 pm

The bike is a bitsa, and the engine and frame came from different models.
I am not worried about the engine number, which is stamped on the engine casing.
What is worrying me is the two frame numbers are different. The vin plate has been removed and replaced, as the frame has been powder coated. What I am really trying to find out is if there are two numbers on the frame (a stamped on one and a plate) should they match???
I am worried in case "someone" has got a written off bike and used the frame (hence the stamped on number still being on it) and rebadged it with a different vin plate so they could register it. Done a piss poor job of stamping it as well, as it is almost illegible.
The two sets of numbers are reasonably close to each other, would an MOT tester, or worse a insurance inspector pull this as an issue??
You might have thought if it was an issue the "someone" would have ground off the stamped number before the frame was powder coated and just left the one vin plate number, which is what is the number on the V5c?

User avatar
Chris950s
MGCGB Member
Posts: 3271
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:20 pm
Location: Essex
Contact:

Re: Vin plate & stamped number on frame not matching

Post by Chris950s » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:29 pm

The MOT tester has to put the frame number into the test computer, if it doesn't match with what is on the DVLA records you will have a problem. Which frame number matches with the log book? If it is on the frame then remove the VIN plate. If it is on the VIN plate then leave it as it is or buy a new one and get it engraved better.
Chris and Karen - Essex
2011 Stelvio NTX, 1974 950S (750S replica still in bits), 1966 Triumph T100SS 50 years young last year!

User avatar
Don-Spada
MGCGB Member
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:30 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Vin plate & stamped number on frame not matching

Post by Don-Spada » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:18 pm

It all sounds very fishy to me.
The Holland Guzzi club has a database of frame numbers and VIN codes. KD seems to come up as a California around 1997.
https://www.mgcn.nl/database/mg-framenummers
As a matter of interest, is this a high neck cali frame or is it all completely wrong? Do the late LeMans have the high neck frame?
1978 SP1000, 1965 Stornello, 1988 Harris Bonneville. 1988 California 3

User avatar
buzz
MGCGB Member
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:53 pm
Location: United Kingdom essex

Re: Vin plate & stamped number on frame not matching

Post by buzz » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:46 pm

The number stamped on the head stock, is the number that should be on the vin plate.
It could be a rite off or stolen / cloned.
Essex' scout, :evil:

User avatar
Chris950s
MGCGB Member
Posts: 3271
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:20 pm
Location: Essex
Contact:

Re: Vin plate & stamped number on frame not matching

Post by Chris950s » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:33 pm

Buzz, that may of course be true but it is not necessarily the case. My bike lost its VIN plate at the shot blasters about 30 years ago, and the number on the frame is barely legible. It caused me a lot of aggro with the DVLA as the MOT tester did not enter the correct frame number into the computer. I had to have the bike examined before they would let me have my documents back. Best to match what it says on the log book for an easy life.

My bike has also been written off but that does not mean the end of the story.

OP check the frame number and the VIN number and let us know if either matches the log book. If neither do you need to contact the DVLA or speak to whoever you bought the bike from. Good luck
Chris and Karen - Essex
2011 Stelvio NTX, 1974 950S (750S replica still in bits), 1966 Triumph T100SS 50 years young last year!

User avatar
Don-Spada
MGCGB Member
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:30 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Vin plate & stamped number on frame not matching

Post by Don-Spada » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:26 pm

There are various people that sell VIN plates eBay etc, not really the correct way to resolve the problem, but it would get you out of a sticky hole.
1978 SP1000, 1965 Stornello, 1988 Harris Bonneville. 1988 California 3

User avatar
cyclobutch
MGCGB Member
Posts: 1152
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:57 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Vin plate & stamped number on frame not matching

Post by cyclobutch » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:48 am

You do want to try and avoid putting yourself in the hands of the DVLA - they can make even the easy things hard.
1980 V50 II........................1981 T3.......................1973 Eldo Loop
- 'The Black Pearl'.............- 'Blue'...............................- 'Jug'

various others.

Post Reply

Return to “Which motorcycle should I get?”